The TXGenWeb
Project

T E X A S   G E N E A L O G Y
The TXGenWeb Project

 
"...the people of Texas do now constitute a free, Sovereign, and independent republic..."
- from the Texas Declaration of Independence, 2 March 1836
 
 


TXGenWeb Chat Session 26 Oct 1997

Session Start: Sun Oct 26 20:05:23 1997
*** Now talking in #TXGenWeb
 2 Hello there, Trey_Braz
 How's everyone doin?
 Hey gang
 Hi Trey
 If I don't start spending more time off-line...I 
   may loose my "Partner"
 Fine
 Hey, Trey.
 What is interesting Barry?
 How are you Trey?
 Fine, been a crazy day
* RootsLady * ~ WaveOut 3.0 ~ * [hello.wav] ~
 hehe, I can understand that one RL, my hubby 
   doesn't take too kindly to it either.
*** PipL7x3 (PipL7x3@166-65-24.ipt.aol.com) has joined #TxGenWeb
 2 Hello there, PipL7x3
 We been making Halloween costumes today. :)
 That is the norm around here anymore
 Hi Pip
 yep
 Hi Everyone
 Hey, Lela!
 Hi Pip
 Did anyone get the notes I sent out a couple of 
  hours ago on the mailing list
*** RootsLady sets mode: +o Trey_Braz
*** RootsLady sets mode: +o Erath_dau
 Got one.
 I haven't had a chance to check my mail for awhile
*** RootsLady sets mode: +o Erath_mom
*** RootsLady sets mode: +o PipL7x3
 I haven't gotten them yet.
 Thanks 
 I think the list must be down
 I thought the lists were down due to the snow storm 
   in Nebraska.
 What do they pertain to?
 No I think doc is changing machines
 No, there is a power outage I heard, for the next 
   week
 The first Biggie is that the query autobot is 
  officially dead
 I got a message that Nebraska was without power due 
   to the snow.
 I just downloaded mail. Had 21, but nothing from 
   you, Trey
 yes, that is what I heard
 Lots of places are down.
 must be El Nino
 Mail lists bouncing like crazy.
 Trey...I have a webpage U may want take note 
   of...for IRC
* RootsLady New IRC page at http://members.aol.com/RootsLady/irc
  /irc1.htm
 ok
 For about a week they think.  USGenWeb, Dsenter, 
   USRoots all down they said
 a week
 how will we survive
 Doc was being pessimistic!
 All kinds of links about IRC
 USGenWeb.org is up - it's housed at rootsweb.
 It's going to be a mess
 That may be an exaggeration; has to do with how long 
   the power is out in Lincoln NB
 It may a LONG winter!!
 It is? I couldn't access it earlier
 Lincoln NE will not be without power for a week.
 I wouldn't think so
 Tom Osborn will not allow it.
 That would be too long. Cities don't usually put up 
   with it that long.
 The other biggie is that doc is changing the domain 
  names at dsenter.com to usroots.com and usgenweb.com
 Will that take place after he moves his machines?
 Anybody heard from CompuMom lately..she wasn't here 
   last week and I haven't heard from her??
 I havent really figured out if the mailing list is 
  going to be txgen-l@usroots.com or txgen-l@usgenweb.com
*** skooter (rjackson@waba5-cs-7.dial.bright.net) has joined 
#txgenweb
 2 Hello there, skooter
*** skooter (rjackson@waba5-cs-7.dial.bright.net) has left 
#txgenweb
 Bye skooter, Sweet Dreams
 I *think* I remember her saying something about going 
   out of town for a while.
 OK..just a little worried!
 Should be in log two weeks ago.
 And I'm not really sure from his note when exactly 
  the change is official and the outage just complicates things
*** marylove (marylove@dial208.tyler.net) has joined #txgenweb
 2 Hello there, marylove
 Hi marylove
 Hey MAry
 Hi everyone!
 Hey, marylove!
 HI Mary
*** HOPALONG (rrw@ras1-3.htcomp.net) has joined #TXGenWeb
 2 Hello there, HOPALONG
 Rootslady, I will check out the page on irc, Thanks
 Hi Marylove
 How's our newest "student" doing tonight..Marylove
 Hi Hopalong
 Hi Hopalong
 Hey, HOPALONG.
 If I can just remember or find my notes!
 Use the notes function in mIRC, mary. Then you can 
   always find them.
 Rootslady, Looks like a good site for irc
 Did anyone get John Rigdon's note on using aol's 
   guest book function for queries?
 I missed that
 Hi, all.  Hopalong here.  I'm usually called Ray 
   Weathers, Hamilton County GenWeb
 I put it up a few weeks ago to help our little 
   group find IRC info.
 Glad you could make it Ray
 I like your nick..Hopalong
 Oh, now I know who you are
 I got here late.  What's the topic under 
   consideration.
 Is there anyway to use it on a mac
*** marylove has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
 Oh, about the nickname.  That's because I used to 
   use braces and crutches (now a 3 wheel electric cart) and 
   that was my CB handle when I had a CB.
 Ray we are supposed to talk about copyright but we 
  have been catching up
*** marylove (marylove@dial149.tyler.net) has joined #txgenweb
 2 Hello there, marylove
 Hi Marylove
 Computer locked up and had to reboot.
 WB
 Does anyone know anything about something called 
   "Country Copyright"?
 Cool site, RL!!  I bookmarked it to look at more 
   later!
 That will drive you nuts mary
 You are right!
 Hopalong...explain!!
 I've never heard of that Hopalong
*** CzechItOu (Czech.hjk@sl19.chrysalis.org) has joined 
#TXGenWeb
 2 Hello there, CzechItOu
 Hi to all
 Hey, Czech.
 what's the topic?
 Hi CzechItOut
 Hi!
*** RootsLady has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)
*** Lady30_06 (RootsLady@1Cust37.max9.houston.tx.ms.uu.net) has 
joined #TxGenWeb
 2 Hello there, Lady30_06
 Oh dear.....
 Hi Lady
 Hey, Lady.
 Well there are some folks in our genealogical 
   society that insist that a "Country Copyright" is as 
   effective as one that is registered in the usual manner.   
   What they do is register it with the County Clerk and pay a 
   $10 fee.  I have done some searching in the Copright files 
   at the Library of Congress and can find nothing on CC.
*** BarryB sets mode: +oooo marylove Lady30_06 HOPALONG 
CzechItOu
-BarryB:#txgenweb- «§» ŠaZZLe «§» !6.0! MASS OP!
*** Lady30_06 is now known as RootsLady
 Hmmmmmm
 Actually, copyright is effective whether it is 
   registered or not.
 I've attended several presentations on Legalities 
   of the Web especially at GenTech
 That's what I tried to tell them.  However, they 
   absolute refused to listen to me so I gave up on them.
 Not worth arguing over.
 AMEN
 One of my lookups has a book that was WPA that 
   someone has taken, edited and published.
 I would like to use it for lookups but I am not sure 
   if we can send them a copy of a Cowboy biography
 The cowboy biography was in the wpa work?
 I put an index to my ggrandfather's book and will 
   send them a copy of the bio if they reqest it.
 That is what the lookup said.
 I have an index of the 38 bios and the counties they 
   are from.
 Mary, we were in Knoxville, TN, in July.  My wife 
   found quite a bit about her family in a WPA book. 
   Unfortunately, photocopying was forbidden and hand 
   extractions are SLOW so she was not able to get on paper 
   what she needed.
 You mean they wouldn't let you copy it!
 That would be rough!
 My understanding is that wpa is public records and 
   not copyrighted.  In the edited book, only what the editor 
   wrote would be copyrighted,
 HOPALONG - you can use a camera often in those cases 
   and they make a special film for documents.
 Why couldn't you photocopy?
 I'm pretty sure that I copied some WPA records in 
   Mississippi several years ago.
 OK..what I want to know is ways (real ideas) for 
   using material that has already been published without 
   violating laws. EXAMPLE..
 The WPA books that they had were bound onion skin 
   carbon copies and I suppose they felt the paper might tear 
   and the carbon would smudge.  We wondered why they didn't 
   make photocopies and let patrons use the copy instead of the 
   original.
 Marriage records for a county have already been 
   done...I take the info and add parents, birth & deaths. I'm 
   I OK??
 Some of that onionskin is pretty tought.
 I see. That sort of makes sense, but I agree with 
   you...they should make copies themselves that people could 
   get some use out of
 Also, photocopying will degrade some types of 
   documents - like carbon on onion skin.
 ahhhh
 OK
*** CzechNu (Czech.hjk@sl19.chrysalis.org) has joined #TXGenWeb
 2 Hello there, CzechNu
 Is it public data, RL, or from a book?
 Hi czechNu
 From a published book...but I am doing the research 
   for the added data!
 Hi  I'm accidentally on twice--once czechitou and 
   once czechnu
 How did you do that?
-CzechNu:#TXGenWeb- DCC Chat (209.41.85.143)
*** Chance (Vicki@ravensys.ndip.eskimo.net) has joined #txgenweb
 2 Hello there, Chance
 I don't know
 Pip..when he rejoined it used his alternate nick!
 Hi!
 I'd either get the author's permission or use the 
   original documents, RL.
 Hi Chance
 Hi :)
 What constitutes new work??
*** Chance (Vicki@ravensys.ndip.eskimo.net) has left #txgenweb
 Bye Chance, Sweet Dreams
 Yours or the authors?
 Copyright allows for additional/new work...if it 
   changes the original work.
 You should technically should use the original 
  documents. you might get away with using the book but if 
  there was anything unique about the info that set it apart 
  from the original documents and someone figured it out you 
  would be open to infringement
 Can you put an index to a book so people know what 
   is in it?
*** CzechItOu has quit IRC (Leaving)
 I think we need a copyright lawyer here.
*** CzechNu (Czech.hjk@sl19.chrysalis.org) has left #TXGenWeb
 Bye CzechNu, Sweet Dreams
*** Erath_mom has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)
*** HOPALONG has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
 It's actually pretty straighforward as long as you 
   don't try to push the envelope.
*** CzechItOu (Czech.hjk@sl19.chrysalis.org) has joined 
#TXGenWeb
 2 Hello there, CzechItOu
 yea, if you or the government didnt write it then 
  dont use it without permission
 
 OK...I transcribed census records from microfilm 15 
   years ago into spiral notebooks...never published them. 
   Someone else published them later. (That's their work!!)
 Unless it's expired.
 yea that too 
 Does that mean an index is ok? If there isn't one 
   originally.
 The intent of the publication is also the issue.  
   When I taught a lot of leaway was granted if no money 
   changed hands
 An index is a new work.
*** Erath_mom (guessagain@ttyD02.our-town.com) has joined 
#TxGenWeb
 2 Hello there, Erath_mom
 I used my copies on my TxTyler web page...see 
   http://www.rootsweb.com/~txtyler/census/tyr50_01.htm
 Just cut off
 Teachers were often granted permission to replicate 
   to inform or teach students
 I would think RL could still publish her 
   transcritions.  She may have interpreted names differently.
 Often this is what we are doing on the GenWeb
 proving copyright infringment and damages are a 
  totally new subject
 I've made several requests of authors and haven't been 
   turned down once for permission to use.
 What if arthor is DEAD!!
 She could, she did the work. Might be a duplication of 
   effort but it's still original.
 author
 Rights go to estate or heirs.
 I have been turned down.
 OK...but does my additional data make it a new 
   work??
 yes
 Also can't you use less than 10 percent giving full 
   credit and be ok.
 Our ETGS sells books and they wouldn't want me to 
   put it on the internet as long as they are in print.;
 For the census? Your work is just as valid as theirs 
   and can be published.
*** elton (lacey@ppp119.cy-net.net) has joined #TXGenWeb
 2 Hello there, elton
 Hi elton
 Hi elton
 Hi Elton
 hey elton
 OK my idea is to identify people who married, 
   parents etc.
*** Major37 (major@host-209-138-7-206.bna.BELLSOUTH.net) has 
joined #txgenweb
 2 Hello there, Major37
 Doesn't mean there wouldn't be a suit for infringement 
   (not likely) but you're work is original.
 Hi major
 Hi Major
 Identify who the people are in the cemeteries..paren
   ts etc.
 Identify who people are on census...
 Is the same stuff as your notes, RL?
 Hi folks...
 Well, I finally made it, my sister called
*** RunnelsCo (TooltimeJ@167-243-165.ipt.aol.com) has joined 
#TXGenWeb
 Hello
 2 Hello there, RunnelsCo
 HI Terry!
 Hello all. Had  computer problems.
 Hey, Terry.
 Hi RunnelCo
 Barry..are you talking about my "page??
 Hey, Elton.
 No. Haven't seen your page.
 Hi RunnelsCo
*** BarryB sets mode: +oooo Major37 Erath_mom elton CzechItOu
*** BarryB sets mode: +o RunnelsCo
-BarryB:#txgenweb- «§» ŠaZZLe «§» !6.0! MASS OP!
 !dazzle
 Thanks..Barry..
 Yes...from my notes and additions I'm getting 
   everyday from the web.
 Your notes are original works.
 POINT...just because records from one of our 
   counties has been published doesn't mean that there is no 
   way it can be used!
 I hated to be late for such an interesting topic.
 Right.
 As long as what you're using is your notes.
 If info from county has been microfilmed, can we 
   transcribe it from there?
 Publishing information from the Public Domain doesn't 
   disallow use of the public domain information.
 Right...Lady..the most difficult problem I have 
   had..is records verification...and the further...
 back I go...the more difficult it is...
 Yes, Pip.
 Old notes and new data added everyday...I think the 
   only way you can understand is to view the pages.
 k
 I meant trying to get copies of records..and the old 
   ledgers...so to speak...
*** tmorris (tdmorris@ras0-19.htcomp.net) has joined #TxGenWeb
 2 Hello there, tmorris
 Hey, tmorris.
* RunnelsCo wants to welcome tmorris to tonight's chat!
 Hi tmorris
 hello.
 Trey, did you get the message from maddoc that the 
   autobot was dead?
 That's another subject...the content changes 
   sometimes daily. How something that changes be copyrighted.
 New copyright date as of day of update?
 Yes I did
* BarryB * WaveOut 2.5 * [dingdld.wav] ~
 LOFL
 Boy, RL you are really laughing a lot ;-)
*** CzechItOu has quit IRC (Leaving)
 Did everyone run out of stuff to say
 I've heard some CC's say most everything for their 
   county has been published...and a lot has been done on my 
   counties...I just want to be able to offer something 
   online...not just "You can buy it at so-and-so."
*** elton has quit IRC (Leaving)
 I am trying to eat, and chat in three places at the 
   same time. :-)
 I think the more material we have then the more help 
   we can be to researchers
 I'm trying to talk to my son long distance - husband 
   carring the conversation.
* RootsLady * AHHH! Computer can DO that???? * [candotht.wav] ~
 Everyone is busy elsewhere, it seems :)
 not enough hours in the day
 No..mom...not here..
 amen
 lol...
 For sure
 any other copyright questions?
 OK..if it's been published...what CAN WE DO?? That 
   is THE question!!
 All you can do is get permission from the author
 I get almost afraid to use anything
 We all want to have data available but there are very 
   good reasons for the copyright laws.
 I think you are on the right track when you add 
   information or present it in a new way.
 You can obtain permission from the author to publish 
   his work on the GenWeb site, with credit going to him and ad 
   for his book.
 I think it helps if you let people know where they 
   can find things and what is available.
 If I were to do the work and publish a book, I 
   wouldn't want to give it away.
*** MarkR (markreid@tpm3-187.ballistic.com) has joined #TXGenWeb
 2 Hello there, MarkR
 Hey, MarkR.
 That's why I'm asking the way I am for ideas to use 
   materials in such a way that we're OK in doing so, even if 
   you don't or can't get permission. How much additional work 
   or alteration does it take??
 Hi MarkR
 Maybe if you ask to use a portion of book or material 
   and then put an ad for the book on the page.
* RunnelsCo says howdy to MarkR
 HI
 Hi MarkR
 Hi folks. Thanks.
 I would say it needed to be unrecognizable from the 
   original.
 If you all would like to have a good website...on 
   computer law..I can provide you one?
 Remember, there are lots of ways to offer info on our 
   pages.
 shoot
 sure Major
 here is the site...may help...
 http://www.complaw.com/lawlibrary/
 Thanks Major
 more that happy to help the group..mom...
 Hey Mom, you mark that one OK? Lack of space here 
   for the time being.
*** RunnelsCo has quit IRC (Client exited)
 Yes
 Got it
 Major37...any thoughts on what it takes to 
   constitute a "true" NEW WORK?
 regarding a book...
 like research?
 genealogy?
 How much has to be added to an "old" work to be 
   considered a "new work??
 If it is a book...then you need to check...date it 
   was published...
 if it has been copyrighted...
 OK
 then you probably attempt to send a registered letter 
   to the publisher...
 return receipt requested...
 OK...it been copyrighted...is there NO WAY I can 
   use that material... add additional data and create a "New 
   Work"??
 if the publisher is  out of business...
 yes..copyright laws are limited....by the number of 
   years...
 also...as I said...
 If you send a registered letter to the publisher...req
   uesting permission to use or reference their material...
 and they are not longer in business....
*** PipL7x3 has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
 you have made an attempt to comply...and it can 
   become a new work...I believe..
 the site...I gave you regarding law...should help...
 also you can search on "copyright laws"...with your 
   webbrowser...
 From the Copyright application concerning changed 
   versions, compilations, or derivative works: "selected, 
   coordinated, or arranged in such a way that the resulting 
   work as a whole constitures an original work of authorship." 
   Admittedly vague.
 has this helped...
 THANKS..Major
 Thanks..Mark...you also...have a good point...
 welcome...Rootslady...
 Did everyone hear me say that the query autobot is 
  dead
 HI..Mark...
*** PipL7x3 (PipL7x3@170-39-115.ipt.aol.com) has joined 
#TxGenWeb
 2 Hello there, PipL7x3
 WB PipL
 What are we going to do about the queries?
 My puter locked up, too.  Is that catching?
 They have a committee working on a new sysytem
 Yes, I did Trey
 I hope not!@
 In the meantime.....
 I'll be glad when they can get something worked out 
   on that
 I put out a note but I think El Nino got it
 2Trey_Braz : I heard a day or so ago, but have not 
   revised my pages. Work to be done. And quickly.
 John Rigdon says we can use aol's guest book 
   function.  Is anyone else on aol?
 I'm getting quite a few sent to me directly
 We are kinda on our on until they come up with a 
  new system
 I am changing Brazos Co over to a guestbook for now
 How do you do a guestbook?
 That's a good idea
 We need to do something with ours
 Call it a QUERY BOOK!!
 lol
 I love it
 Elton Lacy sent me the address to get one. Ill get 
  the address
 I spent all afternoon devising a form for my pages. 
    I think it is going to work fine!
 gotta go put the grandkids to bed, by.
 http://www.piett.com/pgb/index.html
 bye tmorris.
 Nite tmorris
 Congrats!, I'm gonna work on mine after this.
*** tmorris has quit IRC (Leaving)
 see you all later...take care group...
*** Major37 (major@host-209-138-7-206.bna.BELLSOUTH.net) has 
left #txgenweb
 Bye Major37, Sweet Dreams
 bye
 Thanx Trey
 This look like the best temp answer until they get 
  something worked out if you dont want them coming in via email
 I'm going to be home for a while so I think I'll 
   just let them sent the queries to me by e-mail.
 Does anyone have the address for that law url Major 
   had? I lost it when my puter locked up.
 http:www.complaw.com/lawlibrary/
 www.complaw.com/lawlibrary/
 Thanks
 http://www.complaw.com/lawlibrary/
 We are helpful!
 my, my
 Do you have your URL catcher turned on, Lela?
 See what you've been missing Miss Mary??
 Yes, but I'm not sure how to access it. 
 I am going to leave for now.  Good night, everyone!
 Bye Betsy
 Nite.
 goodnight thank for coming
 Nite Betsy
* RootsLady * ~ WaveOut 3.0 ~ * [nitenite.wav] ~
*** Betsy-Lam (betsym@modem99.1starnet.com) has left #txgenweb
 Bye Betsy-Lam, Sweet Dreams
 It's the icon, 18th from left, that says URL
 sure nuff; it is there from ya'll three but not the 
   original
 YOu have to change the settings so it won't delete 
   them.
 Where at??
 Files, Options, Catcher. Uncheck Delete ? Items.
 I'm going to call it a night.  Goodbye everyone!
 night
 night, mary.
 Bye marylove
 Mary..U coming Wed night??
 Maybe!
 I forgot again last week
 Hope to SEE U there!!
 I keep forgetting this Sun nite one. :(
 I remmembered on Thursday
 Bye Mary
 They did good - even got me to waving!
 Then you should have come to the MsGenWEb Chat
 Have a busy week this week.
 Mary's a QUICK LEARNER
 I was going to put out a reminder but forgot. 
 I still haven't unzipped the file you sent RL.  Will 
   try to do before Wed nite.
* BarryB * WaveOut 2.5 * [ircfolks.wav] ~
 OK
 Good chat tonight
* PipL7x3 spares no expense and takes4 BarryB 10,0 to 8,4 /„\cDonalds
 !barryb ircfolks.was
 Yumy!
* PipL7x3 7 gives4 marylove 1,1.4,1:8,1:3,1:12,1:13,1:4,1:8,1:11,1:5,5.8,5M&M's3,1:3,1:4,1:8,1:11,1:13,1:4,1:7,1:1,1.12,0 5 enjoy my 
  friend, the red ones bring luck ya know ;)
 !barry ircfolks.wav
 VERY GOOD MARY
 Forgot how to get those!
 I've been practicing
 I think I'm going to call it a night and do some 
  updating
 Pips doing good
 Lela I sent you that graphic
 THANKS TREY
 Bye Trey
* RootsLady * ~ WaveOut 3.0 ~ * [nitenite.wav] ~
 goodnight
 Bye Trey and everyone!
 I just took me a while to learn how to use it
Session Close: Sun Oct 26 21:26:40 1997

 
 

You may notice a message beside the county listing indicating it is available for adoption. This means that we are looking for someone to take it over on a permanent basis. If you would like to adopt a web page for one of these counties, please contact Shirley Cullum , State Coordinator.  The assistant state coordinators are Elaine Martin and Jane Keppler.

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