The TXGenWeb
Project

T E X A SG E N E A L O G Y
The TXGenWeb Project


"...the people of Texas do now constitute a free, Sovereign, and independent republic..."
- from the Texas Declaration of Independence, 2 March 1836


TXGenWeb Chat Session 10 Aug 1997

Session Start: Sun Aug 10 19:51:43 1997

*** Now talking in #TXGenWeb

* MadDoc Says G'day MikeB, and 

  Welcome!

**MadDoc** MIKE!

**Dallas** the first ones were short, getting the hang of it

**LindaL** Linda, are you kin to the __?__ Dolby that contributed 

   some wills for Brunswick Co., VA?

**MikeB** Hey folks

**Dallas** Hi Mike

**LindaL** hi Mike :)

*** MadDoc sets mode: +o MikeB

*** MarieB (mbarth@blazer00.glendale.cc.ca.us) has joined 

#TXGenWeb

* MadDoc Says G'day MarieB, and Welcome!

**LindaL** hi Marie

**MikeB** Uh oh Maddoc knows what he is doing. I'm an amatuer!!

**LindaL** don't let him fool you, Mike, but he might try to show 

   off his newly learned skills **ducking**

**MarieB** hello everyone

**MadDoc** I was going to ask if you had an auto-ops script Mike.

**Dallas** Hi Marie

**MadDoc** Hey I am a fast learner!

**MikeB** Hey I can barely spell Mike **grin**

**MarieB** I made it.  It's dinner time here, y'all, but I made it

**LindaL** Yeah, sometimes you spell it M-a-l-c-o-l-m

*** MadDoc sets mode: +o MarieB

* LindaL grins

**MikeB** Hi Marie, are you in California/

* MadDoc rolls on the floor laughing...

**LindaL** My dinner is cooking on the stove

**LindaL** chicken jambalya **g**

**MikeB** Linda knows all my secrets.

**LindaL** **g**

**MarieB** Yep, I'm in California

**LindaL** how long do these meetings usually last, Mike?

**MarieB** And thanks to my wonderful husband, I am here

**LindaL** me too Marie.. Rancho Cucamonga (yes there is such a 

   place)

**MikeB** Usually 1 hour to 1 1/2 hour or until we get tired.

**LindaL** ok

**LindaL** I should do this for VAGenWeb

**MikeB** Linda, we spell that Cucaracha here in Texas.

**MarieB** Well Linda, that makes us almost neighbors...my ex 

   lives in Yuciapa

**LindaL** some of the cc's have java chats for their county

**LindaL** very close, Marie

**LindaL** lol

**MarieB** I live in Van Nuys...the hot spot of Southern CA

* LindaL wonders about Mike's spelling skills

*** JoeReynol (~Joe.Reyno@pm1-pppuser28.bluebonnet.net) has 

joined #TXGenWeb

* MadDoc Says G'day JoeReynol, and Welcome!

**LindaL** we're having a cool spell today.. 80's

**LindaL** hi Joe

**Dallas** Hi Joe

**JoeReynol** Hello gang

**MikeB** Hey, I came out 14th in my 6th grade spelling bee.

**MarieB** Same here..thank goodness

**MadDoc** 80's? 60's here.

**MarieB** Hello Joe

**MarieB** I can spell, problem is, I need to have my eyes 

   checked, can't see from a fur distance

**MikeB** Hi Joe in Daingerfield

**MadDoc** out of how many Mike?

**LindaL** You live in the refrigerator of the U.S., Doc

**MikeB** There were 12 entries.

**MarieB** I don't want to hear about how cool it is everywhere 

   else! :)

**LindaL** me too, Marie, and can't see up close anymore either

**MadDoc** Nope not even close Linda.

**LindaL** lol Mike

**MadDoc** hehhehe

**MarieB** Yep Linda, have an appt next month..my current glasses 

   don't cut it no more

**MikeB** Marie, coming to TExas in Sept huh?

**MarieB** YEP!

**MarieB** And I have a Texas passport too!!!!!!!!

**LindaL** lol Marie

**MikeB** Issued by who, the Republic of Texas (ROT)?

**MarieB** Really Linda, I bought it at a garage sale...going to 

   show it at the airport, see what they say

**LindaL** they'll probably check your bags extra good, Marie ;)

**MarieB** I'll have to post what it says about Oklahoma...laughing

**MadDoc** Hopefully they don't lock you up Marie.

**MarieB** hahahaha Linda...true

**MikeB** Probably look for Texas Horned Toads!!

**MikeB** Ever seen one of those critters. They were common where 

  I grew up.

**MarieB** Ohhhhhh I love those animals...

**MadDoc** Armadillo's too!

**MarieB** I have 8 bearded dragons...they are close

**LindaL** awww.. poor Chihuahua.. got swallowed by a Boa 

   Constrictor

* LindaL is watching the news

**MarieB** Serious Linda?  I also have snakes

**MikeB** Now all extincty except for that one who lived 50 years 

  in the cornerstone of the Eastland County courthouse, Old Rip 

  they called him.

**LindaL** yep.. on the news now.. channel 2

**MikeB** We are logging so watch out for those bearded dragon 

  stories.

**Dallas** Everyone must be typing ... or I died!

**MarieB** Bearded dragons are nice pets

**LindaL** Dallas, you don't sound too shy **g**

**MarieB** Poor snake...it looked underfed...it was hungry

**Dallas** Just trying to figure out how to do this ... other than 

   the typing

**LindaL** poor old lady :(

**MarieB** Yes, I feel for the dog also.

*** shytex (shytex@ttyB05.our-town.com) has joined #TXGenWeb

* MadDoc Says G'day shytex, and Welcome!

**MadDoc** Mike - How many of your CC's show for this?

**MarieB** It's people who don't take care of their snakes that 

   make it hard for me.  

**shytex** HEllo everyone!

**LindaL** hi shytex

**Dallas** aside to MikeB ... what is the name of the pub. 

   software you use

*** Betsy (~betsym@modem82.1starnet.com) has joined #TXGenWeb

* MadDoc Says G'day Betsy, and Welcome!

**Dallas** See, someone else from TX is shy

**MikeB** Usually 10-15, but one never can tell for sure.

**MadDoc** Betsy!

**shytex** Who besides me? :)

**MikeB** Dallas, I use GEN-BOOK, great stuff for doing a 

  genealogy book.

**JoeReynol** Hello Betsy

**Betsy** Hello!

**MikeB** Hello shyone in Erath Co

**MarieB** What's the subject for tonight?

**LindaL** hi Betsy!!

**Betsy** Hi Linda!

**MikeB** And Betsy in Lamar Co or Arkansas, whichever she prefers.

**LindaL** FTM 4.0 has a book option now.

**MarieB** Anyone have FTM 4.0?

* LindaL waves her hands

**shytex** Hi mike

**LindaL** I have it, Marie

**MikeB** We are going to talk about the USGenWeb Archives, but 

  let's wait a couple of minutes for more to show up.

**shytex** Only this is Mom, Mike

**Betsy** both!!

**MarieB** I bought it, so far have been happy with it...

**LindaL** me too

*** BroJohn (jquigley@pppv74.tisd.net) has joined #txgenweb

* MadDoc Says G'day BroJohn, and Welcome!

**MarieB** Great...afk...brb....Ice Tea run!!!!

**JoeReynol** Hi John

**shytex** Hi Brojohn

**Dallas** Hi John

**LindaL** oh goodie, I always wanted to know more about the 

   Archives **bg**

**MikeB** I think GEN-BOOK has a lot more options to control the 

  format of your output.

**LindaL** hi Brojohn

**BroJohn** Hi all

**MadDoc** Howdy John.

**MikeB** Hi John in Calhoun Co

**MikeB** Hey John, tell us about your USIGS activities.

**Dallas** I'm ready to start with GenBook ... done the research 

   and ready to write!

**BroJohn** Hi Mife I finally made it. -:)

**LindaL** John Q!!!

**BroJohn** It's fun stuff, we are already working on the SIGGY 

   for next month, the winner will be announced around the 15th 

   for the month, and

**MikeB** Whoever designed the SIGGY logo should get a prize.

**BroJohn** well I can't let the cat out of the bag, but if you 

   have checked out the USGenWeb Archives. Hi Linda!

**MarieB** So, where is everyone from?

**LindaL** If I suddenly drop off the channel, it's because of 

   AOL.. but I'll be back right away

**Betsy** I'm from Paris . . . Texas, that is!!

**shytex** Erath Co. here

**BroJohn** I'll tell Don you said that, the Mad Viking does good 

   work

**MarieB** Good 'ol AOL

**LindaL** I'm from VA, but live in SoCal

**MarieB** Paris...I liked that town

* MadDoc lives in Lincoln, NE. Home of the Big Red "Nebraska 

  Cornhuskers"

**JoeReynol** Joe Reynolds - Titus & Morris County - Live in 

   Daingerfield

**Dallas** I'm Linda - Coord Dallas Co, but from NY

**Betsy** Come visit us, Marie

**MarieB** I'm Marie, from Southern CA, who wants to move to Texas 

   in the worse way

**MadDoc** And operator of the USGenWeb.

* LindaL wants to move back to VA

**MikeB** Watch it doc, this is Big Orange Country and do you want 

  to talk about last year's football championship game?

**Dallas** Been here 19 years ... got here as fast as we could

**MarieB** Betsy, I have been through Paris twice in the last 6 

   months

**BroJohn** Calhoun County and Kinney County, hoping to get some 

   pictures back that I took this weekend so I can get them 

   online. Seminole Indian/Negro Scouts Cemetary in Kinney Co. 4 

   Medal of honor winners in that cemetary.

**Betsy** Did you visit our genealogy library?

**MadDoc** LOL mike...

**MarieB** Is that OC as in OC, CA?

**MikeB** Betsy, is it Aug 21st that I am coming to speak to your 

  group?

**MarieB** Yes Betsy, I did.  In fact, I need to see about getting 

   some research done there

**LindaL** is someone pinging me?

**Betsy** Thursday, yes!  I had to run look at a calendar

**shytex** not me

**Betsy** There is a great researcher in town if you need her name.

**MarieB** Not me, but I wish I knew how to do it.  This is my 

   first IRC chat

**LindaL** I've used IRC for five years, but only used mIRC for a 

   month

**MarieB** What is her first name?

**MadDoc** **innocent look**

**Betsy** Roberta

* LindaL swats Doc

**BroJohn** Found out that there is no genealogy society and the 

   historical society doesn't even know how I can become a 

   member out there in Kinney County.

**JoeReynol** Betsy - Mike, what is going on the 21st, would love 

   to come!

* MadDoc slaps LindaL around a bit with a large side of beef.

**MarieB** I'm using Visual IRC...my hubby says it's brand new

**Betsy** Mike is going to speak to our society on Genealogical 

   Research on the Internet

**MarieB** There is no genealogy society in Gray County either, 

   that I know of

**BroJohn** Marie, how do you like it, that is what I'm using too.

**LindaL** My Netcom software has a great IRC section, but for 

   some reason it doesn't like for me to go to Undernet

**shytex** our Genealogy Society is folding. No interest

**MikeB** There aren't many people in Gray County are there? **grin**

**Betsy** Come join us, Joe!  PJC campus at 7:00 pm

**BroJohn** Betsy, you will love it, he spoke to our group a 

   couple of months back and they are still talking about it.

**LindaL** We have a gene soc in Rockbridge County VA that is 

   going to fund getting data online

**MarieB** Hahahah, no, there aren't, but if I move to Texas, it 

   will be the Pampa area

**MikeB** Washington Co just formed a new Gene Society. Surprising 

  since Washington Co is where the the Texas legislature met to 

  declare its independence from mexico in 1836.

**MarieB** BigJohn, I guess ok, never used any IRC software before.

**Betsy** Mike has been here before.  He is great to listen to, 

   isn't he?

**BroJohn** We sure enjoyed him when he was here, in Calhoun Co.

**JoeReynol** I'll be there!

**MikeB** I did a computer genealogy workshop in HIllsboro last 

  Saturday. Had about 55 people in attendance and had a great 

  time.

**LindaL** Megan is on AOL right now

**MarieB** Is anyone here going to the conference in Dallas in 

   Sept?

**Betsy** Me!!!

**BroJohn** I bet there are moe folks in Gray than there are in 

   Kinney

**LindaL** I wish I could

**Dallas** I am

**MarieB** BigJohn, I don't know, but you could be right!

**shytex** I can't make it :(

**JoeReynol** I'm going to try my best.

**BroJohn** Which one, ICCEC at Infomrat?

**MikeB** Well, I am since I am helping to organize it plus giving 

  three lectures, one of them on the USGenWeb project.

**MadDoc** I'll be giving a lecture at Northwestern U. in Chicago 

   in spet.

**MadDoc** sept.

**MarieB** I think we should all plan on meeting--those of us who 

   are going to the conference.

**LindaL** Richard from CA is going to head a workshop, right?

**Dallas** works for me ... just say when/where

**MikeB** I'm planning to arrange a lunch meeting for GenWeb 

  sponsors. Don't know which day yet.

**BroJohn** There's only two towns in Kinney 1300 in one and about 

   110 in the second. Spofford is even shown as a Colonia.

**LindaL** That'll be nice, Mike

**MarieB** I don't know Dallas---one of you guys would have to 

   suggest something

**Betsy** Great!

**MarieB** Yes, it would be nice!

**Dallas** Mike suggest thurs or Sat ... please!

**BroJohn** I really am not aware of the conference, when is it 

   and where is it? If I can I'll be there.

**LindaL** The FGS conference, John

**MarieB** Thursday for me

**MarieB** If we have a choice

**MikeB** I'm surprised that we don't have more participants, but 

  let's talk about the Archives. Linda, can you address the 

  question of ownership of files submitted to the Archives?

**MarieB** I'm really looking forward to seeing the vendors

**LindaL** define ownership, Mike :)

**LindaL** USGenWeb does not *own* the files

**MikeB** Who owns files sumbitted to the Archives?

**LindaL** nor do the servers where they are stored *own* the files

**MikeB** So the submitters retain ownership?

**LindaL** The files are contributed *to* the Archives, to be 

   presented for free access by researchers

**LindaL** Each file has the contributor's name on the file, and 

   yes, I guess technically, they "own" the file

**MikeB** But they can not withdraw the files, correct?

**LindaL** USGenWeb Archives just groups them in one place

**Betsy** Why would they want to??

**LindaL** One of the points in the guidelines is that files 

   cannot be retracted....

**LindaL** the reason slipped my memory. So I asked two of the 

   others that helped write the guidelines..

**BroJohn** There was a brief flurry of messages today about files 

   being submitted and then the submitter could not retrieve the 

   files, could not remove them if he or she so wanted to do so. 

   This has caused some consternation in some places.

**LindaL** why we added #13....

**MikeB** ONe reason they might want to withdraw is because they 

  might become unhappy with the server or organization who was 

  storing them.

**Dallas** when someone contributes a file, rather than submitting 

   it, can you just link to it?

**MarieB** What does #13 say?

**LindaL** The reason that part was added was so that the 

   volunteer file managers would not have so much time..

**LindaL** taken up in removing, and updating toc's. etc

**LindaL** And what would make them unhappy, Mike?

**LindaL** I must add that the rule is not cut in stone. We have 

   removed files in certain circumstances

**LindaL** The rule is a deterrent, I guess you could say

**MikeB** They might not be protecting the files properly in the 

  submitter's opinion and letting visitors copy the files or 

  download them.

**LindaL** The file managers spend hours and hours on the files, 

   converting them to ascii text, lining up columns, etc.

**MadDoc** To keep people from pulling the files they submitted 

   and then changing their minds a week later and re-submitting 

   it

**LindaL** The contributors of the Archive files are mostly 

   interested in sharing the info with researchers. that's the 

   main purpose of the Archives

**BroJohn** How can you stop people from copying them?

*** Sparky (TooltimeJ@200-84-245.ipt.aol.com) has joined 

#TxGenWeb

* MadDoc Says G'day Sparky, and Welcome!

**LindaL** hi Sparky

**Sparky** Hello all.

   main purpose of the Archives

**Betsy** hi Sparky

**BroJohn** Hi Sparrky

**Sparky** I am the new sponsor for Runnels County. Just now 

   figured out how to use mIRC

**LindaL** If there was a case where the files were being 

   abused...we would take action to protect the submitters... 

   like the recent occasion where someone completely copied the 

   entire /usgenweb directory

*** BroJohn has quit IRC (Read error to BroJohn[pppv74.tisd.net]:

 Connection reset by peer)

*** Gran (knox2616@1Cust73.max23.dallas.tx.ms.uu.net) has joined 

#TxGenWeb

* MadDoc Says G'day Gran, and Welcome!

**shytex** Hi Gran

**Betsy** And another occasion when someone in an unnamed state 

   put up one of the files and claimed it as his own!

**LindaL** And.. we mostly notified the file submitters that files 

   were being copied, and they requested the abuser to remove 

   them from their server

**shytex** I have company. BRB

*** BroJohn (jquigley@vic-2-44.tisd.net) has joined #TxGenWeb

* MadDoc Says G'day BroJohn, and Welcome!

**LindaL** I sent a message to Matt and asked him to remove the 

   files unless he had permission from the submitters

**MarieB** I don't know, if I submitted information, I'd like to 

   have the right to withdraw it if I asked.

**LindaL** His logic was.. they're there, if they want them 

   removed, they need to contact me

**BroJohn** Thanks, hate that phone line noise.

**MikeB** Marie, as was pointed out earlier, you can't withdraw a 

  book donated to a libralry.

**LindaL** marie, if there were certain circumstances, the files 

   would be removed at your request

**LindaL** It's only logical and efficient to request that the 

   files stay there once submitted

**MarieB** True, but a book might not be MY research, if it was my 

   research, I'd like to retain some control

**Dallas** still wonder if genweb will link to a file rather than 

   have to upload it ... I could update as neededthat way

**LindaL** If we did that Dallas, then the search engine wouldnt 

   work

**LindaL** the files need to be on the same server. 

**Gran** Good evening all from Gran

*** impulse^ (impulse@gi22.webbits.net) has joined #TXGenWeb

**Dallas** understood

* MadDoc Says G'day impulse^, and Welcome!

**Betsy** And the search engine is GREAT!

**LindaL** The way USGenWeb is set up... county pages are spread 

   out over hundreds of servers

**MikeB** Hi Gran

**LindaL** thanks Betsy.. thank Doc for that

**Betsy** Thanks, Doc!!!

**LindaL** We've been waiting for a year for Rootsweb to get one 

   installed.

**MadDoc** Welcome Betsy.

   out over hundreds of servers

   he offers the space for free

**LindaL** I can *demand* one from Doc, though **g** LOL!!

**LindaL** just kidding Doc

**MadDoc** I know.

**MikeB** Aha, I believe Gran in Barbara Knox in Ft Worth who 

  sponsors Navarro Co.

**Betsy** But you do a pretty good job at harassing B.

*** WebPsalmi (webpsalms@pmnac1-3.inu.net) has joined #TXGenWeb

* MadDoc Says G'day WebPsalmi, and Welcome!

*** impulse^ (impulse@gi22.webbits.net) has left #TXGenWeb

**LindaL** I send "gentle reminders" Betsy :)

**MarieB** Hello all new arrivials

**Betsy** Oh, sorry!  My mistake!

**WebPsalmi** I can't believe I'm here. Never did this before!

**LindaL** Could y'all give me some reasons other than what Mike 

   said (copying files) as to why you would request files be 

   removed?

**LindaL** hi Web

**Dallas** Lots of new ones here tonight, me included

**MikeB** Linda, how about the concern about the Archives 

  eventually becoming a fee based service from USGenWeb?

**LindaL** You all should know that TX has the most files in the 

   Archives, per kb

**LindaL** no WAY!!!!

**MadDoc** Never going to happen Mike!

**LindaL** absolutely NO WAY!!

**JoeReynol** Linda, speaking for myself, I see no reason to 

   remove the files.

**Gran** How did you ever figure that out, Mike??

**LindaL** thanks Joe

**MikeB** Hi Pam in Nacogdoches, glad you make it.

**MikeB** Gran, I'm pyschic and I recognized your handwriting!!

**Betsy** That goes against the whole idea behind USGenWeb, 

   doesn't it?

**LindaL** The whole purpose of the Archives is to be FREE and 

   offer valuable data to researchers

**BroJohn** I think that some folks want a guarantee that you can 

   protect them from being stolen. Which I think is safe to say 

   is impossible.

**LindaL** yep Betsy.. it does

**MadDoc** Question?!

**LindaL** There's no way we can guarantee.. . BUT.. we do have a 

   notice on every file that says they can NOT be copied for 

   profit or commercial use

**Betsy** I think they are safer on Rootsweb than they would be on 

   my server!

**MadDoc** Have any of you tried out the new search engine I have 

   for the archives?

**MarieB** For myself, I'd maybe want to pull them because someone 

   was copying them, or maybe the organization who I dontated 

   them too was not what I expected...for starters

**LindaL** The only suggestion we've had is that the server itself 

   could go after the perpetrator for violating a user's 

   notice.. or whatever

*** WebPsalmi is now known as PamP

**BroJohn** Well if not Rootsweb the only other place I could 

   think of woud be DSenter

**Betsy** Besides me??

**LindaL** I understand that Marie, like Kindred Konnections, etc

**Betsy** Amen, BroJohn!

**LindaL** We've discussed for months.. the option of mirroring 

   the files on usgenweb.com.. just so they are available in two 

   places

**MadDoc** And I have a copy of most of the archives at usgenweb 

   on a dsenter server John.

**MarieB** I'd would just like to know that I have that option if 

   I felt the material was not being used as I expected it would 

   be.

**LindaL** When Doc said he could put a search engine on them 

   immediately... we went for it

**LindaL** Marie, as long as the notice is on the file, they 

   cannot be used for commercial or fee based servers

**MarieB** Kindred Konnections?

**BroJohn** It makes sense, the search engine is really needed.

**LindaL** Yes.. they were charging fees and pointing to the 

   Archive files in some cases

**MarieB** True Linda, but I'm the kind of person who, after doing 

   a lot of research, time, $$$, want to retain some options of 

   my research that I donate

**BroJohn** If for no other reason than the files are getting 

   quite large.

**MikeB** I would prefer that the Archives be in one spot rather 

  than two or more. It just increases the odds of copying and 

  because each separate server must implement its own security 

  controls.

**LindaL** The Archives are also a good place to store large files 

   that take up space on cc's servers

**LindaL** Also bandwidth saving

**LindaL** Two will be the most.. and that is for security/crash 

   reasons

**Betsy** I would like for them to be accessible when Rootsweb is 

   down.

**BroJohn** But you can't really stop copying, all I have to do is 

   pull up the file and scroll through it and I have it copied 

   to my hard drive.

**MadDoc** Well, mike have you noticed lately that rootsweb has 

   been down?

**LindaL** We could have completely moved them off Rootsweb and 

   onto usgenweb, but even tho Brian is slow about the search 

   engine, I would never do that to him

**BroJohn** and rootsweb will be down 6 - 7 hours I think is what 

   B said this afternoon as he puts in some more changes.

**MikeB** Yes, I have noticed but my concern is that they be 

  online at all times in two places. When rootsweb goes down, 

  then allow access on dsenter.

**LindaL** that is unless Rootsweb started charging fees, but 

   knowing Brian and karen, they won't do that

**LindaL** Once rootsweb has a search engine in place, Mike, we 

   would look into that

**BroJohn** How would you control that one?

**LindaL** Has anyone here *not* tried the search engine yet?

**Dallas** I admit I haven't

**Sparky** Nor I

**LindaL** http://www.usgenweb.com/archives

**MikeB** If someone uses the search engine and finds info that 

  they are interested in, do we care if they download the entire 

  file with that info?

**BroJohn** only used it once.

**LindaL** try it, you'll like it :)

**MadDoc** http://www.usgenweb.com/archives/

**MikeB** I have used the search engine a little bit.

**LindaL** Mike, as an end user yourself, what would you like to 

   see happen?

* LindaL is the end-user consultant for the Archives

**LindaL** Tekkie.. I am not :)

**LindaL** As a researcher, would you like to be able to print the 

   entire file?

* MadDoc is the technical consultant for the archives

**MikeB** If the files are in ASCII format, I think they can 

  always be printed or downloaded. Is that right Doc?

**LindaL** yup.. he is

**MarieB** I'm no tekkie either...just barely able to HTML

**MadDoc** Yup even thru the searche engine.

**LindaL** yep, Mike, that's why we convert them to ascii text

**MadDoc** but it keeps people from MASS downloading them.

**LindaL** The search engine that Brian is working on might just 

   return portions of the file.. we haven't worked out the 

   details yet

**Betsy** But I can download/print even info in html format

*** vann (~crilley@dialup24.eramp.net) has joined #TXGenWeb

* MadDoc Says G'day vann, and Welcome!

**LindaL** right Betsy

**MikeB** I am spoiled by the use of GED2HTML program by Gene 

  Stark because it scatters a GEDCOM over so many files that it 

  is pretty much impossible for a viewer to access the info and 

  download meaningful info.

**BroJohn** That is a problem that we cannot avoid isn't it. The 

   Cache gets you evey time.

**LindaL** the main concern of contributors to the Archives is 

   that a broderbundish company won't copy them and try to sell 

   them

**MarieB** Hello Vann

**vann** Hi! This is my first time on a chat line!

**MikeB** Hi Virginia, glad you joined us.

**BroJohn** Hi Vann

**Betsy** I have Lamar Co. marriages online, but they are only 

   accessible through the search engine, I believe!

**LindaL** Our main concern is that the files are not abused. Most 

   of them are public domain information.. but we don't want 

   someone coming along and selling what the volunteers have 

   prepared for free

**Betsy** Or maybe they are not accessible yet!?!?!?

**LindaL** where did you put them, Betsy? both servers?

**BroJohn** That was what got everybody in an uproar when B 

   suggested putting them on CD awhile back.

**MadDoc** Betsy.. are they in the archives? STate?

**Betsy** I didn't, Jim did -- on Rootsweb.

**LindaL** He did suggest that, but nothing came of it.

**Betsy** They are supposed to be hidden behind a search engine

**Betsy** Texas

**BroJohn** Thank heaven for that Linda, it would have shot what 

   we are trying to accomplish.

**LindaL** The guidelines of the Archives are there for potential 

   file submitters to read

**MarieB** Betsy, before you leave tonight, be sure to give me the 

   name of the researcher in your county

**LindaL** If they agree and want to include their data, we'll add 

   it

**Betsy** No problem!

**LindaL** Yep John.

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* MadDoc Says G'day elton, and Welcome!

**Dallas** Hi Elton

**elton** I forgot!

**MikeB**  Hi elton in too many Texas counties to count!!

**BroJohn** Hi Elton

**LindaL** When I first proposed this idea (the Archives) on 

   ROOTS-L, I got much support... The only ones that didn't like 

   the idea of free records online were the publishers

**LindaL** hi elton

**Sparky** Hello there Elton

**elton** hello to everyone

**LindaL** brb

**BroJohn** Bottom line is where the publishers are at, they are 

   of course interested in money that's why they are in business.

**MikeB** Linda, I think the concern has been caused by a fear of 

  some secret plan by USGEnWeb to use the Archives for 

  fundraising to support the activities of USGenWeb and dsenter 

  in particular.

**LindaL** nope, Mike. There's no way USGenWeb can use them as a 

   fundraiser.. USGenWeb is a non-entity :)

**MadDoc** Where do these rumors start? Secret plan?

**BroJohn** I wish that some of those who were on the mail list 

   today were also here tonight.

**LindaL** Although.. I have sent a letter of intent to USIGS for 

   funding to help pay for the server space

**MarieB** Sometimes rumours start from experiences people have 

   had with other services, etc

**LindaL** Rotsweb and Dsenter give the space free

**MikeB** Don't know where the rumors start, but that fear is 

  there.

**LindaL** USIGS funding will come from grants and donations

**LindaL** Well, last November, Bill Couch accused me of trying to 

   sell the data... some of the rumors might be leftover from 

   that

**BroJohn** All it takes is one Email on a list.

**LindaL** exactly, John

**MikeB** Unless I'm mistaken, one of the major reasons for USIGS 

  was to address the fundraising issue, since USGenWeb was a 

  non-entity and had no way to raise funds.

**Betsy** Somehow I knew that ya'll were going to look toward 

   Arkansas!

**LindaL** USIGS was formed by mostly USGenWebbers, right

**LindaL** lol Betsy

**BroJohn** No we aren't looking for any Chinese funds.

**LindaL** USIGS will fund other projects, too, not just USGenWeb 

   projects

**LindaL** or plan to

**BroJohn** Charter Memberships however are still available.

**LindaL** The main purpose of the ARchives is to help 

   researchers.. that's what we are all volunteering for anyway, 

   right?

**LindaL** We were lucky that Brian offered the free space over a 

   year ago

**vann** agreed!

**LindaL** Mike, believe me.. your concerns are well represented 

   on the file managers/archives mailing list

**MadDoc** I wasn't in a position to offer the space a year ago.

**BroJohn** USIGS is dedicated to Free Access online of well 

   documented records that are of use to the broad spectrum of 

   the genelogical community.

**LindaL** WE love you anyway, Doc :)

**BroJohn** Even so

**MikeB** Helping is one thing. Contributing something that an 

  individual has spent hundreds of hours on compiling is another 

  thing. Each contributor needs to read and understand the 

  guidelines for the contribution of material and decide if they 

  want to contribute their work or not.

**LindaL** right

**LindaL** And ask the file managers how they feel about the hours 

   they put into organizing, converting, uploading, html'ing :)

**MarieB** Agreed Mike, and because of the fact that once 

   contributed, you lose rights, I'd be very leary of 

   contributing anything I've spent hours on

**LindaL** THey were VERY upset that matt Roller copied their work 

   and claimed it as his

**Betsy** You don't lose any rights, Marie!

**Betsy** It's like the book in the library, you still own the 

   contents!

**LindaL** Marie, if someone contributed, say, a huge file on 

   marries 1800-1850, then decided to publish it...

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]: Connection reset by peer)

**MarieB** So far, tonight, I see that I would.  No one has 

   defined "certain circumstances"

**LindaL** we would remove it at their request

**MikeB** For example, I have extracted the 1860 Johnson Co Texas 

  census and published it in a book. I would like to recover 

  some of my costs before I contribute a complete copy of the 

  census to the Archives. I think it is my choice about when & 

  if I decide to contribute my work, knowing full well that the 

  census info is public domain. I offer to help by responding to 

  email inquiries on the Johnson Co TXGenWeb page.

**LindaL** We would hope they would leave it online, and we could 

   add a note on the file saying a publication could be 

   purchased..etc etc

**Betsy** I can publish the content AND put it online free!

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**LindaL** Each "certain circumstance" stands on its own

* MadDoc Says G'day shytex, and Welcome!

**Betsy** Thanks, Linda!  That is exactly how I have done the 

   Nevada Co., AR cemeteries!

**MarieB** Linda, what do you see as Certain Circumstances?

**LindaL** You don't lose your rights... you can still publish it 

   if you want

**BroJohn** But Marie, you can't lose rights, the data is still 

   yours. It is the same thing as a genealogy society spending 

   hours putting togetther records and then publishing them and 

   giving a copy to the library and sending to different other 

   soieties. They still have their rights but now the rest of 

   the community has the data available to them too.

**LindaL** Certain circumstances would be the individual file 

   submitters reason for wanting to remove the file

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* MadDoc Says G'day Alicia17, and Welcome!

   the community has the data available to them too.

   cost much faster if you put it online and offered the book 

   for sale, too

**BroJohn** You can't take back that which you have sent out. It's 

   like when I preach a sermon, everyone in that room now has 

   that sermon, but I still also own the sermon because its a 

   part of me.

**Betsy** I have had people BUY my Nevada County book just because 

   they found it online!

**LindaL** yep..what Betsy said

**Alicia17** anyone know how to add a pic to the ircle faces file

**LindaL** I've had many people say they have sold the books

**MikeB** Linda, you might be right, but it is up to me to decide 

  if I want to do that just like it is up to me to decide which 

  (if any) and when I want to contribute copies of the book to 

  appropriate libraries.

**MadDoc** Think of it as Free advertising for your book.

**LindaL** If people find an ancestor online.. and there is a 

   published book with the info, they will buy the book. I know 

   I will!

*** Alicia17 (Jeanie@207.102.150.39) has left #TXGenWeb

**LindaL** I'm also finding that gene socs are getting an increase 

   in membership by putting things online

**BroJohn** I have too, once I found there was a book available 

   for info I had found online, I bought the book too.

**vann** **vann**I think so too.  Seeing it on-line just assures you 

   that you won't be wasting your money. Most people want the 

   whole book because they can find other helpful info there too.

**LindaL** People want to help support free data online

**LindaL** exactly, vann

**MikeB** No doubt that the GenWeb project gives visibility to 

  gene societies quickly in a way that it would take them much 

  longer to achieve otherwise.

**Betsy** Our Gene. Society librarian is always sending me notes 

   about how many new memberships we are getting because of the 

   online resources!

**Betsy** And she was totally against it at the beginning!

**MikeB** There continues to be a lot of resistance in the gene 

  societies.

**LindaL** And like I said earlier, one gene soc in a vA county is 

   going to fund putting data online.. buying a scanner and 

   computer for the courthouse!

**Betsy** Also, it is hard to document an online resource.  Many 

   "DAR-type" organizations require the cover page!

**LindaL** Yes, Mike, that's your choice

**MarieB** Agreed about helping people with their research, but as 

   an example, if/whenI get the cemeteries in Pampa online, it 

   will be because of my hard work.  If the online server 

   misuses my info, of the info is misused, I'd like the right 

   to pull it.

**PamP** We EXCEEDED our membership goal of 11 in 97 because of 

   going online and bec. of EAST-TEXAS-ROOTS

**BroJohn** The reality is that when people realize that genealogy 

   is something that others are into too, they will join the 

   society to get the help they need with thier own lines. They 

   can then also help others and get enjoyment from that too.

**LindaL** now, Marie. Define "abuse" **g**

**MarieB** I did, earlier

**Betsy** If Linda abuses your info, I will HELP you get your info 

   offline!

**LindaL** It's a trickle down effect, huh John? **g**

**LindaL** lol Betsy

**MadDoc** Me too Betsy!

**MarieB** Copying, claiming right to work I've done...circumstance

   s such as a provider starting to charge for info, etc.

**BroJohn** trickle trickle tickle

**MarieB** Ok, Ok...hide the whips now :)

**JoeReynol** Gang, have got to run, Good night to all and a 

   Special Thank You to Linda and Doc for joining us!

**LindaL** You can put your copyright on it, Marie, and it will 

   stay there *on* the file, if you submitted it

**Betsy** Marie, if that happens the lawyers will be in line to 

   get them for you!

**MadDoc** cya Joe

**LindaL** nite Joe :)

**BroJohn** nite joe

**MarieB** Hahaha, let's not talk about lawyers....:)

**LindaL** but thats changing Mike

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**shytex** Hi MadDoc, thanks

**MikeB** The difference in a library and the Archives is that it 

  cost 10 cents or more per page to copy but the files can be 

  copies quickly and for free (probably without anyone's 

  knowledge) when posted on the Web.

**Betsy** Have you ever seen what happens to an abuser/spammer on 

   this project?

**MikeB** Pam, so HI to your parents for me.

**vann** **vann**Too many societies do not have anyone on-line yet, 

   but once they do, I think they will be open to sharing their 

   work for the same reason we've mentioned....publicizing for 

   the purpose of selling more books.

**Betsy** 30,000 messages to the spammers ISP!!! **LOL**

**LindaL** lol Betsy

**BroJohn** I think that folks are just concerned because they 

   don't understand the internet, once they understand that it 

   is like the Library or the museum they are more willing to 

   donate.

**shytex** I sure would, if I got that lucky...

**LindaL** and the president of the college's server

**MadDoc** **innocent look**

**Betsy** amen **LOL**

**MarieB** I agree Bjohn.

* MadDoc  8*)

**BroJohn** Yeah too ask Matt Roller about his volumn of mail.

**MikeB** Yes, Vann, but a society can advertise their products 

  without posting the entire publication.

**LindaL** he finally removed the files until he got permission 

   from the submitter

**BroJohn** That is the power of the USGenWeb banning together.

**LindaL** One of my submitters is an attorney herself, and she 

   was ready to file suit **g**

**Gran** BroJohn is right - many societies do not understand the 

   Internet and are afraid of it.  Makes a difference in 

   cooperation.

**Betsy** I need to check.  He never got my persmission!!!

**MarieB** What happened with this Matt dude?

**Dallas** did he get that permission????

**LindaL** He has a very scarce database now

**LindaL** He had the entire query database from AOL's gene forum 

   on his server

**Betsy** Rats!!!  I thought he was down!!

**LindaL** AOL was *not* happy about that!!

**BroJohn** He stole files and put them on his site without 

   permission. Within a week his server and himself were 

   bombarded with thousands of pieces of email all angry.

**LindaL** Mike, it goes back to not putting it online and trying 

   to sell it first

**MikeB** Doc, is the query system stable now?

**MarieB** I wish courthouses only charged 10 cents a page

**Betsy** Not without Doc's and Dr. B.'s knowledge!

**MadDoc** Yup it sure is... still adding a few new addresses to 

   it.

**Betsy** Right, Doc?

**LindaL** We revised the USGenWEb Notice a bit after the Matt 

   incident

**MadDoc** Going to be sending out a batch here soon too.

**LindaL** We now stress that permission must be obtained from the 

   file submitter

**Betsy** I saw that log in action in Arkansas!

**MadDoc** No one can access my server without me knowing it.

**MikeB** I would like to request a little more forewarning when 

  the query system is going down, if possible. I can't stand the 

  email volume of questions from cc's again.

**LindaL** At first we were concerned that Broderbund would copy 

   the files after we had a significant "library" online

**LindaL** And believe me.. B-bund has been watching the ARchives 

   with interest

**Dallas** Gran, you're right. Had to talk Garland Gen. into 

   putting pg on Web, but after a year, lots have gotten into it 

   & even have email

**Betsy** Ooops!  I wasn't going to name the state! **LOL**

**MadDoc** And the archives are not in a publicly accessable place 

   anyway.

**LindaL** lol Betsy

**PamP** Will do, Mike.

**BroJohn** I am glad that they are playing by the rules so to 

   speak. Broderbund seems to be fairly cooperative now a days.

**MadDoc** Sorry about that Mike... it was an emergency that 

   caused it.

**LindaL** But Mike, like someone said above, people are hesitant 

   to purchase books on the "chance" their ancestors are 

   mentioned.

**LindaL** If they see they *are* in a publication, they will 

   purchase it for sure

**LindaL** It's all in choices.. whatever works for the individual 

   that has the info

**shytex** Nite Joe

**LindaL** Yep John.. but we did panic when B-bund downloaded all 

   the files to index them along with every gene webpage.. to 

   add to their search engine

**MadDoc** Heck a list of surnames covered in the book would be 

   acceptable.

**Betsy** I had a book store online checking the info for me in 

   some books he had listed.  He told me which ones contained my 

   names and I bought SEVERAL!!!

**Betsy** I would never have bought any if he hadn't done that!

**LindaL** I spoke with their v-p about it by PHONE!! LOL

**LindaL** He assured me the files were trashed after they were 

   indexed

**BroJohn** This all is subjective, and it has to be that way, we 

   are after all people who are intensly interested in what we 

   do, and we spend many hours (days) putting things together. 

   It is a personal thing for each of us.

**LindaL** Some will do that, Betsy.. some won't

**vann** **vann**Actually for the present, I think listing contents 

   of published material, i.e. names is the way to go. This lets 

   them know their ancestor is in the volume, but doesn't offend 

   the Societies. I don't think anybody is ready for the 

   wholesale putting things on line if they have already been 

   published.

**Betsy** But Linda is keeping an eye on them, right??

**LindaL** yeah.. I watch out :)

**elton** Nothing to contribute, folks, so signing off

**MikeB** Vann, I agree with you about posting contents or 

  possibly responding to email inquiries about what is in the 

  book.

**MadDoc** nite elton

**MikeB** See ya Elton

**BroJohn** Take care Elton, I was in Uvalde Saturday.

**LindaL** nite elton

**Dallas** re the queries, are you going to continue 2 pgs: old & 

   new or evenutallly just the one?

*** elton has quit IRC (Leaving)

**LindaL** We sent a message to the usgenweb list, Mike

**LindaL** Telling all the sc's that a temp page was up. It was 

   unavoidable.. and unpredictable

**MadDoc** As soon as I know people have the old queries copied.. 

   I'm going to kill that directory.

**MikeB** Linda, I think it was only AFTER the query system became 

  inoperative.

**MarieB** Well folks, it's been fun, but I have birds to feed and 

   snakes to put to bed, and work tomorrow...had better run.

**LindaL** I stayed up all night uploading those temp pages. :(

**LindaL** thanks Marie.. night

**MadDoc** No I personally visited every state page and emailed 

   the SC's about it.

**MikeB** Doc, emailed teh SC's about what?

**MikeB** Doc, can you elaborate on the status of indexing the 

  posted queries on a national level?

**Betsy** Marie, what county are you from, so I can find your 

   email address?

**MadDoc** Both Linda and I were doing things at the same time.

**MadDoc** nite marie... thanks.

**BroJohn** Gnight Marie

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, closing link)

**LindaL** I had to upload because they are stored in the USGenWeb 

   directory of the Archives

**MarieB** Mike, I vote for either Thursday or Sat during the 

   conference in Dallas

**MarieB** I'm in Gray county

**MarieB** We's little, but we's is a county :):)

**Betsy** I will send you the researcher's name!

**MikeB** Texas has an Unknown County Query page and we have had 

  over 10,000 visitors to that page since March. The volume of 

  queries is staggering and it is very difficult to sort through 

  them.

**LindaL** marie.. if you submit those cemeteries, I'll have them 

   removed if you want :)

**MarieB** If it's Ramona something or another, I have it...

**Betsy** Roberta

**MarieB** hahaha Linda, I'm in the first stages of trying to get 

   them indexed....hard to do longt distance

**MikeB** Hope Doc comes back!

**LindaL** hehe

**Betsy** But you might wait a week or so, her husband died Thurs.

**MarieB** Yea, her...I've been in contact with her...

**LindaL** You should see the pile of stuff on top and under my 

   desk!

**MarieB** Desk?  WHAT desk?  OH, that is what my computer is 

   sitting on

**Betsy** But you might wait a week or so, her husband died Thurs.

**LindaL** lol

**MarieB** :)

**LindaL** My husband's computer is next to mine, and I try to 

   keep the overflow away from his

**MarieB** Y'all take care.

   sitting on

**LindaL** Once in awhile I'll leave a Pepsi can on his desk

**Dallas** Got to run Mike, let me know which day for lunch

**BroJohn** Our  Society is working on Marriages and on the old 

   cemetery records. One of our Funeral Homes has given us 

   access to their records back to when the first opened up. But 

   there are some who don't wnat the info online because they 

   want to sell the infor.

**MikeB** My wife refuses to enter my computer room

**MikeB** See ya LInda

**LindaL** Mike, Does Ken Hollingsworth know that you have 

   published that census?

*** MarieB (mbarth@blazer00.glendale.cc.ca.us) has left #txgenweb

**LindaL** He needs to add it to the Census project page.. so 

   folks will know it's available

**BroJohn** Trying to convince them to put the surnames and dates 

   out so they will have info out there and will be able to sell 

   more books.

**LindaL** brb

**MikeB** I have not discussed the census publication with Ken

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**MikeB** Hi Mark in Wood Co

**BroJohn** Gnight Dallas

**Betsy** Doc, would you send out a message to that effect for 

   forwarding to my CC's.

**MikeB** I think Doc is not here right now.

**Dallas** Bye all

**shytex** Hi woodco

**BroJohn** Calhoun County TX is copied.

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**woodco** Hi folks. Very late, but here.

**BroJohn** Hi woodco

**Sparky** Runnels County TX is copied

**MikeB** Sparky, is that 1850?

**Sparky** Hi woodco

**PamP** How can one combine the auto query system with CCHelper?

**BroJohn** Kinney County too, although you did not have any 

   queries online for that county.

**Gran** Navarro and Ellis Counties are copied. 

**Betsy** Use import, and select autobot.  Those queries come in 

   very easily!

* LindaL is back

**MikeB** Patty Lindsey, CCHelper author, will be on this chat 

  next Sunday night.

**LindaL** yes, the message from Doc went out to all the cc's the 

   same night I was uploading the temp auto-query page

**BroJohn** I note that NY isn't available at USGenWeb Archives.

**MikeB** Betsy what is your estimate in hours for a CC to start 

  using CCHelper?

**PamP** Thanks, Betty.

**LindaL** great Idea Pam. We need someone that can write that 

   program :)

**PamP** Betsy

*** MDoc-2 (maddoc@206.222.198.4) has joined #TXGenWeb

**Betsy** Yes, I got that message, but I meant about taking the 

   oldqueries off!

**MDoc-2** Geesh

**LindaL** He e-mailed them about the emergency, and that the 

   auto-queries were down for a few days

**shytex** Nite Elton

**LindaL** he will

**LindaL** net split probably

**LindaL** he's back.. lol

**Betsy** Put them in CCHelper, Mike!!  **GBG**

*** MDoc-2 is now known as MadDoc

**MadDoc** Anyone here?

**BroJohn** I guess you are stronger than you thought you were Mike

**MadDoc** ops L

**MikeB** Doc what is the status of the indexing system for 

  queries. The query volume in Texas is staggering.

**PamP** Linda, I believe it can already be done, but I am hazy 

   about using both.

**shytex** Nite Marie

**BroJohn** We werer waiting for you Doc.

**MikeB** How is the email list of cc's maintained?

**LindaL** Am I supposed to leave, now, Mike? LOL

**MadDoc** I got knocked off the other server.

**Betsy** Mine is in the den -- so my family can see me!

**LindaL** He needs to add that it's available, Mike, with your 

   e-mail link

**BroJohn** Mine too, she has her own computer and doesn't want 

   online. 

**LindaL** that way no one will sign up for it

**PamP** Now there is a thought, Betsy **grin**

**MikeB** LInda, looks like you answered the Archives question, 

  thanks for participating and stay with us until the bitter end.

**Betsy** They tell me they don't know what my face looks like any 

   more, though!

**MikeB** I will notify Ken about my census publication.

**BroJohn** My wife says that she wants me to give her back the 

   phone, she thought I got a second line for her.

**Sparky** I'm sorry Mike. Did I miss something? What was the 

   question about?

**Gran** Speaking of census, Mike, where's Ellis Co?

**MadDoc** I'm still here.

**vann** **vann**Thanks for a great 1st time! I'll be back, but need 

   to go right now! I support the Archives with the 

   clarification I learned tonight.

**LindaL** nite vann, thanks :)

**MikeB** Gran, we had a good workshop in Hillsboro on Saturday. 

  Thought I might see you there.

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**Gran** goodnight, Virginia.

**shytex** Nite Dallas

**Betsy** I love it, John!!

**MikeB** Gran, I have completed the extract but have not 

  completed its conversion to HTML. I could send a text version 

  to the ARchives now.

**BroJohn** Having more fun that a human being should be allowed.

**woodco** MadDoc  : Both Wood and Rains Counties have been copied.

**MikeB** I agree that Seadrift Texas is a pretty pleasant place.

**Betsy** For Hopkins county, we set up the CCHelper AND added all 

   her queries in about 4 hours!  But she had a BUNCH of queries!

**MikeB** Doc, query index????

**MikeB** Erath, I found you.

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